The Qwer Old Fella's Marathon Method

May 18, 2024

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Location:

Tralee,Ireland

Member Since:

Oct 01, 2011

Gender:

Male

Goal Type:

Other

Running Accomplishments:

I've never worn compression socks.

Short-Term Running Goals:

To do a race.

Long-Term Running Goals:

1. Break the world record for the marathon in the 50+ age group, when I'm 50 in 2015.

2. Never wear compression socks.

 

Personal:

Married with two girls (6 and 10).

The Qwer Old Fella's Marathon Method is a four year experiment.

The first year (2012) was about getting back into running, staying off the smokes and booze, while sticking to a healthy eating plan and shedding mountains of lard. All boxes ticked.

Year two (2013 - age: 48) Injured Jan through March. Build back up and work on my 5k speed. Goal 15:45.

Year three (2014) will be about doing my first marathon in the spring. (Just for the experience and on a tough course - maybe Tralee; goal time, 2:30ish.) Then begins the prep work for Berlin 2015

Year four (2015) is all about breaking the world record for the marathon in the 50+ age group - it's only 2:19 :).

The above might sound nuts; it is, but then I'm nuts. Please do not copy any of the training I do: if you do, you are likely to end up running like me - not a good idea.

The idea is to have a laugh along the way. If I fail, I don't know what I'll do - my whole belief system will crumble and I suspect that this little rock might just stop spinning for a couple of seconds. Jakers, I better not fail for all our sakes. That's some burden, even for SuperBam.

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Miles:This week: 0.00 Month: 0.00 Year: 0.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
14.000.000.000.0014.00

7:30 a.m. 8 miles easy. Feeling ready for tomorrow's workout - the wind should have settled.

Yesterday, I posted some disjointed and incoherent thoughts about certain aspects of training for the marathon. Bret questioned my flippant remark about miles followed by tempo and sharpening intervals being malarkey and definitely the wrong way to go.

Today, I wanted to address Bret’s concerns and clarify what I meant - in a concise and coherent manner so that Mr. Murphy wouldn’t feel the need for a nap.

Rather than approach the issues in a muddled way, I think it might be better if I were to start again and explain things clearly. I will address Bret’s concerns - probably tomorrow, when I look at one of Lydiard's big problems. But for now, as a starter and a teaser, think about the energy/fuel system required for the marathon compared to that of the interval training advocated by Lydiard at the end of his plan; what is your body expecting when you lace up your flats?

In 2015 I want to run sub 2:20 for the marathon – I’ll be 50 on the 7th Jan 2015. What makes my goal all the more daunting is that the 50+ age group world best for the marathon is 2:19:XX.

To achieve my goal I need to approach the marathon knowing (as far as it is possible to know anything other than, cogito ergo sum) that the training philosophy/method is the one that best suits my needs. To this end, I’ve spent time studying many of the great coaches and methodologies/systems – Lydiard, Canova, Kellogg, Hadley, Tinman, Horwill, Daniels, the Hansons, the  Japanese, and the Spanish etc.

I think all of those that I’ve studied offer great ideas, but I truly  believe they are all flawed in their approach to the marathon – some more than others. Canova, imo, is on the right track, but still has a way to go.

Pretty much all of the ‘great’ coaches believe that you can predict your marathon time based on your 5k/10k/half marathon time. They pretty much all agree that tempo runs in some form or other (you might be surprised how they differ on this) are essential in preparing for the marathon.

So what? There’s nothing groundbreaking here. Well, I think they’d be great if the marathon were only an 18-20 mile race and here’s where it gets interesting. So many people fail to hit their goals because they follow bog standard programs, which in truth only get them to 18-22 miles – elites included. Most blame their failings on extrinsic factors like fuel and water etc, when, most likely, their inability to achieve their goals was down to misguided preparation.

Furthermore, too many people, elites included, are racing too much and doing too many marathons, which are hindering 'real' development at all levels, including the 2:03/4 guys.

There are myriad problems with how most people prepare for the marathon and by examining the key points of the major coaches' methods I hope to highlight these problems and open the door to the 'new way' of marathon training. Big claim from Mr. Nobody; back it up, lad.

I will back it up, and better still, I will present and enact the 'new way' - The Bam Method.

7:00 p.m. Cheeky little 6 to get the legs ready for tomorrow's workout.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Night Sleep Time: 0.00Nap Time: 0.00Total Sleep Time: 0.00Weight: 133.00
Comments
From Rob Murphy on Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 04:54:36 from 24.10.249.165

Up at 4:30 AM, drinking my coffee, the first thing I usually read is Bam's post. A great way to start the day...

I'll start with the obvious. The great runners of days gone by used to race a lot more. Have you studied Bill Rodger's in the 70s? Doesn't necessarily mean what you are saying is wrong.

Off for an early morning 7 miler where I'll ponder what you've written.

From Bam on Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 05:31:41 from 89.204.242.253

Ha ha. That's a crazy time to get out of bed.

Yep studied both Rodgers and Shorter; both remind me a bit of Jake. Comparable Vo2 max readings: Rodgers 78 and Shorter 72. Comaparatively low and yet, both able to run the marathon at a high percentage of their repective VO2 max readings.

I was looking back at the marathon and 10k times from the 70's, 80's, and 90's in the US and UK, (in particular the depth of times below 2:25 and 31 mins). I had many friends who were running sub 2:17 back in the 80's and 90's and they were only considered half-decent club athletes!

Guys trained harder (didn't have proper rec days, i.e. sub 6 pace was rec) and raced a lot, but they were injured a lot and probably didn't hit their potential.

Enjoy your run - I've noticed you are increasing the miles...

From Bret on Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 09:12:29 from 64.128.133.66

Good stuff...

From Rob Murphy on Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 09:38:08 from 24.10.249.165

It's kind of hard to say whether or not someone reaches his potential. Tim Noakes (The Lore of Running) believes that a person training at the world class level only has a small handful of truly top quality races in him. Shorter's gold in 72 and silver in 76 (to an admitted doper) seems to me to be about as much as one could hope for. Rodgers had about nine solid years as the world's leading marathoner - or close to it. Seems like they both exceeded the shelf life of the typical elite marathoner. They also both took cross country, track, and road racing seriously. Shorter took 5th in the 10000 in Munich ahead of his gold in the marathon. They could chew gum and walk. Today when a runner commits to the marathon he usually forsakes his earlier track career.

You also need to consider the psychological benefit of racing. As they say, "training ain't racing". It's very difficult to just turn it on on race day if you haven't been doing much racing.

For example, Bret will (in my opinion) be making a big mistake if he doesn't run a quality half marathon in October and a couple quality 5k's or 10k's before that. By " quality" I'm not necessarily referring to the times he runs, although that's important, but to his competitive mindset going in. The races need to mean a lot to him and he needs to do a mini taper before. In other words, simulate actual race prep.

From Jake K on Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 10:43:40 from 155.100.226.54

We need to have a marathon training summit - Canova, Bam, Rob M, Galloway. Roundtable discussions that people would pay to come listen to! :-)

This is seriously great stuff. Lots of great ideas from people who I actually really respect the opinions of. I'm enjoying these discussions a lot.

From Rob Murphy on Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 10:55:50 from 24.10.249.165

While we're at it Jake, let me say that I'm a big fan of the way you are going about things in your training and racing. You seem like a throwback to the 70 - although you weren't even a gleam in your daddy's eye at the time!

Feel free to prove me right by uncorking a 2:15 at any time.

From Jake K on Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 11:02:24 from 155.100.226.54

I just wish I could grow a sweet mustache like all those guys used to have!

I plan on going on a Shorter/Rodgers style racing schedule starting next week and I'd be glad to prove you right at TOU!

From Bret on Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 11:07:00 from 64.128.133.66

Speaking of mustaches...someone just posted a photo of a promotion for a Steve Prefontaine bobblehead night for the Eugene Emeralds -(I'd post the photo if I knew how)https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=329174620507558&set=a.295991417159212.66970.100879393337083&type=1&ref=nf

Now there's a guy who raced.

From Bam on Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 08:04:23 from 89.204.229.9

Sorry chaps, couldn't post yesterday: eldest daughter's 10th birthday and nobody was allowed near any computers etc. That's the wife for ye.

Rob, Nowt wrong with racing and racing hard, I just think people race too often.

I agree about Bret - sorry to talk about you as though you are some kind of experiment. It's important that the 5k and the 10k are before the half. After the half would,imo, be a mistake.

Racing is imperative and should form part of the schedule; I agree, training isn't racing.

On Jake dropping out a 2:15, I reread some Canova stuff that I will post today; it talks about having a cheeky little PR of 1:05 for the half and running 2:15. I think you might find it interesting if you haven't read it before.

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